MythBusters Episode 75: Myths Redux
Air Date: March 21, 2007
REVISITED: A trombonist had put a firecracker into his mute, and at the final note of the 1812 Overture, launched the mute, striking the conductor and knocking him back into the audience. In addition, the bell of the trombone was blown wide open and the slide was launched. (From episode 11)
re-busted
The re-test involved placing simulated lips against the trombone’s mouthpiece so as to seal that end. This still failed to cause the slide to fly off the instrument. They only achieved the feat by soldering a plug into the mouthpiece, completely sealing it shut.
REVISITED: A sniper can kill another sniper by shooting straight through the scope of his oponent’s rifle. (From episode 67)
plausible
Using a period-accurate scope (this myth originates from the Vietnam War) and a .30-06 armor piercing round, Jamie’s shot went completely through the sight and penetrated two inches into the target dummy – deep enough to be a possibly lethal hit.
REVISITED: A shotgun plugged by a human finger will backfire and explode injuring or killing the shooter instead of the intended victim. (From episode 43)
re-busted
The re-test used a 19th-century double-barreled shotgun made through Damascus welding. The first barrel was damaged by a ballistic gelatin finger, though not as seen in cartoons. A steel finger welded to the end of the second barrel simply made the whole tip of the barrel shoot off.
SPINOFF: A .30-06 rifle fired while having a boresight still in the barrel will backfire and explode, creating a cartoon-like banana peel effect as shown in submitted photographs. (From episode 43)
plausible
The Build Team’s test used a brand new rifle. The barrel split several inches when fired with a laser boresight in the barrel. The Build Team surmises that the banana-peel effect could be achieved if this were to happen in an older rifle that has endured more wear and tear from firings.
REVISITED: If two hammers strike each other, at least one hammer will completely shatter with lethal force. (From episode 67)
re-busted
First, the Build Team properly heated two modern hammers to the transition point and quenched them, making them as brittle as possible. The two hammers simply snapped at the necks when struck. Then they tested older steel hammers (predating World War II). Though the heads began to chip when struck, one of them ultimately snapped at the neck as well.
SPINOFF: If a hammer strikes hard against an anvil, the hammer will completely shatter with lethal force. (From episode 67)
re-busted
For this re-test, they used a genuine steel anvil and used a rig that would make the hammer strike against the top of the anvil. The pre-WW2 steel hammer suffered cracks and chips from first a human then a superhuman strike, but it did not shatter.
Newer: Episode 76: Voice Flame Extinguisher
Older: Episode 74: Dog Myths
Wouldn’t it be plausible, not to totally shatter the hammer, but for a chip to fly off at high velocity, due to not the high pressure of the hammers striking and breaking the handles, but due to resonance from repetitive striking, causing fractures and allowing a crack to develop invisible to the eye, maybe, to only later come flying off to injure the eye. I haven’t heard of a hammer exploding on impact, but I can understand that the hardened steel could come flying off at high velocity to strike the eyeball, or somebody else. Was this only to say that the whole hammer head wouldn’t explode? Another possibility to the head is that, remember the expression of the frequency where the vibration sent the whole bridge shaking, maybe a crack could form if the hammer was resonating, and just by chance, or perfectly measured (is that possible?) it was struck hard again, to concentrate the resonance again, causing a chip to come off?
Goodness me. I am terrible at writing short sentences.
June 26, 2007 at 9:14 AMYep. As my schoolmate who demonstrated how ’safe’ it is to bash two hammers together will tell you – don’t hit hammers together. At least, not if you like your corneas intact.
High School metalwork room, two hammers, one person acting idiotically, hammers meet at velocity and a very very small (almost microscopic) piece of hardened steel flies into his eye – needing to be surgically removed.
I’ve never heard (outside of mythbusters) anyone talking about ‘exploding hammers’. Hitting any objects made from hardened steel together is Not A Good Idea. Even on the mythbusters’ own slo-mo footage, you can see small debris coming off the hammers when they hit.
Also, the same goes for axes/sledgehammers/etc.. I hope I never again see someone hitting an axe embedded in a log with a sledgehammer..
Tim..
July 1, 2007 at 9:49 PMThe trombone myth should have been busted from the start! You see, the 1812 overture doesn’t call for a mute so why would the trombonist have one in the instrument if the piece doesn’t call for it?
July 5, 2007 at 9:35 PMThey actually did mention that the hammers may chip. but the myth they were testing was for a complete shatter, I had nevery heard of it myself but eh.
July 18, 2007 at 10:23 PMMetallurgist/gun nut… .30-06 AP ammo was cheep when I was young, and I’ve fired alot of it. I’ve never seen significant distorsion of the core even when fired into steel plate (really not a good idea to be close to the steel plate). The core may break, but not distort. I doubt that the recovered fragment was from the AP bullet. The AP bullet is made of the copper (cupro-nickel) jacket and a small amount of lead (approx. 25 grains) apparently used as a lubricant/filler when the jacket is formed over the approx. .270 dia. boat-tail shaped core. The recovered fragment appeared to be lead and larger than 25 grains. I think the recovered fragment was most likely from the previous bullet and you initally missed the entry hole. My experience with ‘06 AP ammo would indicate that close examination of the dummy head (if still available) would reveal a small cut/exit in the back of the head from the AP core, and the identifiable bullet shaped core could be found, in line, in your dirt backstop (up to 1 foot deep but probably less). You could hunt for it with a magnet.
August 27, 2007 at 12:49 PMAlso, as a metallurgist, I have had the opportunity to analyze the AP bullet materials. I had always been told that the cores were “carbide” (tungsten carbide particles held together in/by a cobalt matrix. I was supprised to find that the cores that I examined were high carbon steel (iron based), apparently AISI 10100 os W1 tool steel, heat treated to maximum hardness. However, it makes sense… the steel cores work well, and tungsten carbide cores would have made the ‘06 AP round expensive to produce.
Period sniper ‘06 ammo would have been government “match” (headstamped “match”) ammo (160-168gr.??(I’ve forgotten) boat-tail spitzer), but for your experiment 150gr. ball should have worked just as well.
As far as the hammer myth goes, a blacksmith would be continuously hitting the hammers, Tori, Grant, and Carry just hit them a couple times and then called it busted. They need to continuously hit the hammers time after time for it to work. Personaly I think they should redo this again.
August 27, 2007 at 2:05 PMAs far as the the hammer myth is concern, I am a carpenter that builds custom homes and on a personnel experience that I had on June 6th 2007. I can say that a hammer can send chips the size of a M&M’s flying. On the above date I was building a timber frame home in my Area and while I was laying roof panels, I had to remove some kicker boards “boards to keep you from sliding of the roof” off a 12/12 pitch in order to screw off the roof panels. I placed one hammer in between the panel and the kicker board, and used a second hammer to strike the first hammer farther underneath in order to pull up the kicker. Upon my second strike of the hammer,the hammer that I was using to strike the other hammer, had sent a piece of metal the size of a mini M&M into my lower bicep severing my Blood vessel, my main artery, and embedded itself in my nerve causing 30% damage to the nerve. as a result of this I almost lost the right arm. but doctors were able to reconstruct the vitals and now the only damage I have is the lose of feeling in the index and thumb. So make what you may from this but this hammer was only 3mons. old! I do have photos of the hammer, the wound, and a medical report to prove this story! So yes I think they should redo this again!
September 1, 2007 at 12:15 PMFor the last time, they SAID hammers could chip!
September 1, 2007 at 7:30 PMIn the late 1950’s I struck one hammer head against another whilst trying to replace a broken handle in one of them. This piece of stupidity caused a fragment of one of the hammers to fly off in the form of a spark. The spark struck my bare bicept, passed through my skin without leaving a mark. The evidence is there to this day in the form of a small black mark rather like a tatoo. Also on pinching the skin around the mark, the piece of metal can be felt, it is about 1/4 the size of a grain of rice.
September 1, 2007 at 10:04 PMRegarding the ‘banana’ gun barrel, I was not particularly surprised at the result as once the barrel failed at one point this would release the pressure so no further splits would form. The only way to get a splayed-out barrel like in the cartoons would be if it failed at several points simultaneously.
September 10, 2007 at 4:35 PM18/10/07 hello Boys, I have a piece of a small hammer in my knee from a hammer which struck a much larger hammer used as a dolly. It went in so hard the surgeons said to remove it could do more dammage. That was about 30 years ago and it gives me hell at times. Regards and thanks for an entertaining show. Peter Tucker Australia
October 18, 2007 at 6:35 AM22/10/07. Just watched the revisit myth on the trombonist and noticed no refernce to the tuning slide that also shot off like a rocket. As this is the slide that would have copped most of the initial force of the blast before allowing it into the main slide, I wonder how far it travelled? Footage shows it taking off at high speed. And the main slide went 70 feet, how far for the tuning slide, going the opposite await. Look out Percussion Section I say!
October 22, 2007 at 5:39 AMwhen the hardend hamers were slamed together the handle bent absorbing the force. HARDEN ALL THE HAMER
October 22, 2007 at 8:12 PMThis show is nothing but a couple of idiots that have access to a ton of materials, access to myriad explosive experts, stupid experiments that prove nothing and should be taken off the air because of their stupidity.
October 23, 2007 at 1:45 AMthat lilly guy is right even though he has a girls name
December 9, 2007 at 8:22 PMhahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahah yay get it kronk
December 9, 2007 at 8:24 PMThe problem with the Hathcock story has to do with trajectory, rather than factors treated in the Mythbusters experiment. At only one comparative level (height one above the other) could the trajectory of Hathcock’s shot have tranversed the scope in question exactly; and, in such case, the enemy sniper could not have been aiming at Hathcock. This one is busted (and more easily demonstrated by mathematics than actual experiment).
December 26, 2007 at 4:03 PMThe banana peel rifle barrel theory is completely accurate. It actually happened to me on a hunting trip last November in Alaska, a 30.06 Browning A-Bolt, as the rifle barrel was plugged by snow and ice. It split cleanly right down the middle when i got on a griz, from the tip of the barrel down to the scope mount, approx. 21″ The tips of the barrel are now 21″ apart also. Blew out the ring seal on the scope too. I was very lucky, only my left hand was numb for about a day. Pictures to prove it. Maybe Browning will give me a new rifle in exchange for the story?
December 28, 2007 at 7:45 PMi think that the conductor would be much more likely to be flying off the stage because of the shear shock of being struck with this large object that exploded towards him and not from the actuall force of being hit. I think using buster doesnt make sense since he wont jump backwards in shock or fear at all and will just absorb the full hit. this has bugged me alot since watching both visits of this myth. I mean if i were hit with something like that i might jump into the upper seating out of shock alone.
January 3, 2008 at 1:01 AMI think Sgt.Hathcock was using a model 70 Winchester chambered in .300 win mag. This would be more powerful than a 30-06.Also I can confirm that those “chips” from a hammer have enough force to stick in bone. The scar is cute but the nerve damage isn’t.
January 13, 2008 at 4:45 AMStill having trouble with the two hammers struck together test. It’s been called BUSTED/ RE-BUSTED. But there’s still a few problems.
1) The construction of the metal head of many hammers is one of hardfacing over softer metal, a result of the type of heat treating process used on it. This is similar to the hardcasing used on gears and splined shafts. Makes the surface very hard and wear resistant, but prone to shattering when struck with something equally as hard and of sufficient mass. If the gear or splined shaft is broken through the spline or tooth, the hardfacing is visibly different to the metal beneath it.
As I remember it, the Myth Team tried to cater for this by applying their own heat treatments to several hammers, but the type of heat treating they applied actually changed the structure of the metal so that it wasn’t hardfaced but hard all the way through. The treatment they used wasn’t the type for producing hard facing over a softer central core.
2) A structure was built to enable two hammers be affixed to steel arms that struck the two hammers together. However, the handles of the hammers kept breaking. What appears to be overlooked is that this is a result of the design of the machine. It does not really replicate the actions of human hands holding the hammer handles and interaction of the attached to human wrists and arms. Try stricking two rubber mallets together and watch how so much of the forces are absorbed by the reactionary moving of all the joints of the arms right upto the shoulder and the countering forces of the sets of muscles within the arm as they act to stabilise the outward flinging arms of the person. This also acts to absorb and counter the forces. The device constructed to hold the hammers did not allow for this and so the heads kept breaking off the handles.
Perhaps they could try this again using a what is essentially a baby’s humidi-crib, that is one of those clear perspex enclosures with arm holes in the sides. (Obviously with suitable protection on the person’s arms, etc.)
January 19, 2008 at 6:04 AMIn regards to the trombonist myth. I noticed a missing element that my be crucial to the myths accuracy. With all attempts, none were conducted with actual air pressure being applied to the mouth piece end. If a player was playing the horn when the firecracker went off, the pressure of the horn being played will add force to the explosion. This may cause the horn to peel open and fly apart. There would be an increase in atmospheric pressure inside the horn, which would be amplified with the introduction of an explosion adding back pressure at an extreme rate.
February 18, 2008 at 2:08 PMI have a piece of my hammer in my chest,by hitting two together. I think I know what you missed in your experiment.
July 9, 2008 at 4:48 PMshotgun plugged by human finger.
July 27, 2008 at 8:26 PMthe myth is supose to be with a sidearm from the late 1800’s,like the cap and ball guns from the old west where the myth started.
using a 21’st century weapon for this myth is a waist of time.
coworker just had shrapnel from hitting two hammers go into his chest… so, it is confirmed for everyone I work with.
August 31, 2008 at 4:13 PMRegarding the exploding hammer concept, I hear that metals do break during cold weather. Perhaps you could condition your hammers at -40 degrees F., and then bang them together again. At some temperature, materials reach a glass point and they loose their yield strength. For seviceability,tensile sength and yield strength are needed to get the proper amount of toughness in metal. High toughness is needed for proper hammers.
I was watching a Canadian diamond mine program and they spoke about the problem of major metal failures at temperatures of about -40 degrees F. and lower.
Many thanks for your show, I enjoy it.
January 2, 2009 at 12:29 PMI know for a fact that a chip can come off an abused and worn hammer, a guy i work with lost an eye to it! another guy had a chip from a chisel lodge in his arm and block a blood vessel.
March 29, 2009 at 6:25 AMI still have my x-ray photos on cd that show a chip off a hammer head in my hand. I won’t do that again!!
July 15, 2009 at 6:23 PMThis hammer-strike “myth” has sparked controversy in our magazine, Fine Woodworking, and on our Web site.
We ran a picture of a woodworker tapping two hammers together in out May/June issue and it provoked a continuing debate… if you have thoughts, feel free to weigh in in on our blog: http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/17562/reader-says-mythbusters-missed-on-hammer-strikes
August 7, 2009 at 11:57 AMOne day about 25 years ago I was splitting eucalyptus for firewood when my splitting maul became stuck in the wood. I struck the back of the splitting maul with a sledgehammer to force the maul through the wood. When I did this, a small chip of metal flew off the backside of splitting maul. The chip flew off the splitting maul with enough force to go through my jeans & my skin & stop at the bone in my shin. It was extremely hot when it hit my leg. I’m not sure, but I think that the 2 were miss aligned when they collided.
August 9, 2009 at 4:01 PMAs a former hunter education instructor, I can assure all present that a rifle or shotgun barrel plugged with any substance (including water, mud, ice, snow, finger, etc. can cause barrels to fail (usually split)in the manner shown in cartoons. Youtube has several videos of guns fired and barrels split in real time. I personally have several barrels I used as teaching aids whose barrels split as a result of various pluggages. Sometimes this was a bullet that didn’t make it out the muzzle and sometimes other things. As to the reader who surmised mathematically the Carlos Hathcock’s shot could not have traversed the length of a ’scope “exactly” longitudinally, he should remember that the Russian Moisan-Nagant rifle used against him had a short (about 150mm) long scope and that a bullet’s fall over such a short distance is minimal, even at very long range. As I recall (and I have read Hathcock’s book) the shot mentioned was made at a relatively short distance (not extremely long range) so the shot is possible. The bullet path, though it would obviously have been distorted by the lens strikes, would not likely have been deflected enough to miss the primary target behind the scope. From 50 years shooting experience plus hunter education instructor training and personal analysis, Hathcock’s “myth” positively confirmed. I have to agree with the folks that claim mythbusters guys are a couple of village idiots with more money than brains. And that if they don’t get the “results” they are trying for initially, they declare “busted” and move on.
August 12, 2009 at 10:21 AMI had a shotgun barrel banana peel on me in 2007 and I have the pictures to prove it. One thing is for sure, there was nothing obstructing the barrel prior to the shot. I checked that the barrel was clear from the breach before loading. I also used the proper sized shell. The cause was never determined, but I believe it was a defect in the barrel itself or perhaps the choke tube. It was the loudest sound I have ever heard!
October 2, 2009 at 10:24 AMI saw episode 43 the other day where you busted: “A shotgun plugged by a human finger will backfire and explode injuring or killing the shooter instead of the intended victim.” myth and i wanted to make a suggestion what if you drilled the shotgun’s barrel so that the thickness of the barrel is very thin and you took of the support bar at the top of the shotgun wouldn’t that make it more likely to make a banana peel result? I don’t want to confirm the myth i want to help get the result you thrived for in the episode.
October 12, 2009 at 4:48 PMA household hammer with the V on the end to remove nails repeatedly used on an anvil with copper rivets will indeed lose it’s its forks. I’ve done this twice now.
December 2, 2009 at 6:27 PMAnother shattered hammer story…two of my uncles went for the same nail at the same time. A large sliver came off of one of the hammers and lodged in one uncle’s eye. Luckily he did not lose the eye, despite a long wait at the hospital. It was a large sliver, not a flake or chip, and it was a glancing blow that damaged the hammer.
December 11, 2009 at 3:25 AMWell, they said it could chip.. but they were testing for a SHATTER.
It’s like the ‘break a rock with a bigger rock’ mentality. They’re looking for complete destruction, as if the hammer had a small bomb detonate inside it.
February 7, 2010 at 9:33 PM